I am woman, hear me rant.

[fangirl_says]

I honestly do not understand the mindset that says people who've been on the receiving end of an unprovoked, anonymous attack should just not say anything. Should just let it go and move on. Or maybe just quietly work it out in email.

Fuck that noise.

People who smear other people anonymously do so because they think they can get away with it. Maybe they have gotten away with it in the past. And you know what? If there aren't any repercussions, they'll probably do the same thing in the future.

I think society in general tells women they shouldn't complain when they're wronged, shouldn't make a fuss, and I see that happening on LJ right now. God forbid we should speak up -- there might be OH NOES drama, and drama must be avoided at all costs, apparently, even when it's well-deserved drama. I think that's bullshit. If I have something negative to say about someone, I figure there are two choices -- either don't say it, or say it with my name attached, and stand by my own words. If I'm wanky about it, I fully expect to catch flack for it, and I fully expect people to point-and-laugh or call me on my batshittery.

So I think that's why it boggles me when there are so many people going "oh, why don't they just let it go and move on" instead of pointing out to their friend that her actions were wrong, or even asking why she would feel the need to do something like that. If the situation was reversed, these same people would probably be calling for blood. That's fucked up, man. Being someone's friend doesn't mean you can't ever think they're wrong, and can't ever hold them accountable for their words and their actions.

And it doesn't mean the other side should just shut up, either.

Comments

[geminilove-ca.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. WTH is with this idea that women must be martyrs all the damn time? There's a huge difference between whining about the unfairness of absolutely everything (when it actually is fair) and calling someone on the carpet for bad behavior.

As for friendship, I think being able to tell your friends, "Dude, I love you and we're friends, but that was outta line," is not only acceptible but absolutely expected. There's a difference between friendship and yes-ma'am-ing someone.

[fangirlsays.livejournal.com]

As for friendship, I think being able to tell your friends, "Dude, I love you and we're friends, but that was outta line," is not only acceptible but absolutely expected. There's a difference between friendship and yes-ma'am-ing someone.

Yes! Man, I would seriously hope a real friend would do that for me, because you know what? I don't want to act like a horse's ass. And if I am, a real friend would tell me so, and not let me embarrass myself further.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

Since when was the latest Supernatural wank about women's rights? o__O

[fangirlsays.livejournal.com]

I didn't say it's about women's rights. I'm saying that society in general reinforces women not speaking up when they're wronged, and it looks to me like the same thing happens in fandom, where most of us are women.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

I don't think what's happening in fandom is because most of the members are women. Most of the members happen to be women.

[fangirlsays.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I don't expect that a male-dominated fandom would be hand-wringing and shushing the way some in fandom are doing right now, as if the worst thing that could happen would be drama. Personally, I prefer drama over someone being a jerk and walking away like nothing ever happened.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

I don't think a male-dominated fandom would include 'dramatic' squabbles over every argument or whatever where someone was wronged, though. That kind of thinking is as archaic as women needing to sit quietly when things go wrong/when things go down. Though, if you're blaming anything on society, check out the war(s) going down right now. Ignoring problems is totally not what society is encouraging. It seems whenever even the tiniest thing goes wrong, society encourages people to bang down doors and overreact.

But I think there is a time and a place where it's necessary/unnecessary to 'kick up a stink' or whatever. I mean, people shouldn't create 'drama' over random, stupid things. There are more important matters than petty name-calling (from what I know, that's what the recent wank this time is about?) to spend time on.

[fangirlsays.livejournal.com]

As far as I can see, though, the only stink that's been kicked up has been the two people talking about it in their LJs. They had nothing to do with the post on dean_sam, but it's them I keep seeing people say should shut up. And you can bet if someone posted 50 foul-mouthed comments to my site/journal, and I found out who it was, I'd say so.

[fangirlsays.livejournal.com]

I agree that ignoring a troll is usually the best way to go, definitely. The person in question isn't a troll, though; she's well-known in fandom and apparently isn't going anywhere.

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

So I think that's why it boggles me when there are so many people going "oh, why don't they just let it go and move on" instead of pointing out to their friend that her actions were wrong, or even asking why she would feel the need to do something like that. If the situation was reversed, these same people would probably be calling for blood.

So much love and word on this. I just don't understand this at all. Talk about insane troll logic... It's bad enough that women throughout history have been attacked and pulled down because of this male-dominated world in which we live. Why does it need to go on among ourselves?

And why haven't we found a way to chase her out of the fandom yet? People like her make me ashamed to admit I'm a part of the SPN fandom.

[ex-pkabyssin114.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% with all of that. I think it's especially important to call people on their bad behavior when they're trying to do it anonymously, otherwise all their doing is being rewarded for doing something wrong.

Of course, I'm also a big believer that you don't know the strength of a friendship until you have your first disagreement. We can't all have the same opinion all the time.

There are times when I wish that people could be voted out of fandom.

[benitle.livejournal.com]

I guess there are two things that actually stunned me during this whole wank:

1) How can anybody say that if you're being attacked (and if you did nothing to provoke the attack other than launching a website that is accessible to everybody and that everybody can contribute to), you should just shut up about it? What do those people expect? That if someone calls you a whore 50 times, that you just send them a nice, friendly and polite email asking them to stop? No! It doesn't work this way. If someone does you wrong, you call them out on it because otherwise the person will just go on. This is so sick.

2) How can anybody not see that ckll is a liar? How can people still stand behind her and buy the "woe is me, I'm the victim" picture when there is proof that shows she is NOT the victim and that proves that she lies? How can people still follow someone so two-faced blindly? I really, really don't understand that.

[mrstinkles.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, I was thinking about a couple of my (not so good) run-ins with fandom (both in & out of Spn fandom). I was going to write a post about it today (even had a good title, which I can't remember).

Sadly, I'm one of those people who has deleted many a post for fear of offending someone.

(Dang! I didn't mean to post as Mrs. T. *L*)

[zillah975]

People are fucking NUTS. Omg. *clings to you like a limpet*